I've been hearing of foul play by people associated with a local in our area.
They have told me about a certain family that not only had the ramps in their possession before the race but also went threw all the sponsor cars(60). Pulled the axle out and took them home.
The winning floor board in stock division was the old Logo (S.B.D.). w/ older axles.
I want to blame the first year Director for allowing this individual to have this much power but I have had dealings with this family and he's a master of deceptions and preys on people's weakness.
If all of this is true, It's a shame. I hope people from our local don't make the same mistake again.

what city?
,the 2 tracks I have raced ,the race directors have done it by the book!

Scoutdad,

Most of our experiences with different city's races have been very positive.
I don't know if this is true, so I'm not going to bring shame to the hard working group that has all kids in mind. If this is true I'll post all I know. I'm posting this opinion trying to find out more info. The people that can answere these questions know who I am and know what city I'm talking about.

It is a shame that this happens, but it happens every year at some Local Race cities. Ask Jeff Iula how many calls he gets at Local All American race time. The All American local is a different breed of race. It is the Big one and some familys or shall I say Dads will pull out all stops to win the Local and go to Akron for the big show. Any race Director that does not run a wheel bank, or a progressive wheel swap either does not care, too nieve, or is in on the fix to get a certain car to win. The local race Director is also somtimes intimidated by a local race family that has been around a while.
A progressive wheel swap will make it diffcult for someone to run:

1. A nose heavy car with very fast wheels on the front and very slow wheels on the back.
2. A tail heavy car with very fast wheels on the back and very slow wheels on the front.
3. A car that has a cross bind with very fast wheels on the bind and very slow wheels on the non bind.
4. A good outside wheel bearing with a bad inside bearing on all 4 wheels with the proper caster or camber to give the good bearing more weight and the bad bearing less weight, then when opponent gets wheels they have less weight on the good bearing and more weight on the bad bearing.

Another thing that has been going on with a very few select cars, is a car with egg shaped spindles where a few thousands has been removed off the spindle at certain locations so the wheel rests on more than one bearing as to create less friction and thus more speed. ( One of these was found in one local and I was told the axels were sent to Akron for observation, so if your running these be prepared to get caught and probably DQ from the All American.) These egg shaped spindles were noticed by the All American years ago but kind of got forgotten as the years went by.

A racer can run these setups with a progressive wheel swap but it will catch up to them and they will get beat sooner or later. Did you ever notice that some cars that are smokin em at the rallies suddenly slows down when it gets to the Nationals or it does not show up at the Nationals?

It is more difficult for locals to cheat you on the timers if they have a talking timer set up to a PA system.

This is why the NDR Nationals is the fairest racing possible. They have a inspection that catches things the All American misses. Years ago all cars at the NDR also had to be balanced so one could not play with tail or nose heavy cars. Of course with the creation of the Super Stock car where the cockpit is not centered NDR can no longer require a balanced car.

Good luck to all legal All American racers and may the wheel gods be with you.
Also good luck to all NDR racers and a reminder that if you place 1st or 2nd in your All American local you are automatically qualified for the NDR National Championships.

Maybe its time to start a topic on good tricks and bad tricks to teach all what to look for in derby racing. The All American put out 3 small books years ago and they questioned whether to put in the book all about the dirty tricks, but they decided to put the book out anyway so as to teach all what to watch for.

Up date
This one is unusual, I don't know how to take it. The local city in question posted the winner's on it's web site for days
and now the web master (I assume) un-posted the winner's.
I'm hoping that the Derby Gods got to the honest local power's and now have an investigation brewing.
Or maybe it's just a mistake.
I'm hoping some one from another local can tell me who picked up the ramps for this questionable local and how many weeks before the race.
I'm hearing 2 or 3 weeks before
This local has it's own ramps and ,in STEAD, had to borrow another city's ramps..
Why, both ramps were tail heavy set up's.
I've told the ass. Director last year- you want a fair race- wheel bank and a balanced weight ramp is needed.
Last year I told this group I'd make the ramps adjustable, for free, so nose and/or tail weight would not have such a factor.
I also would like to verify if this family really had over a 100 axles in their possession.

It's going to take some time but I have all the confidence that the new director will weed out these self serving people.

Up date
The local, I assume, has a issue w/ the car's that won and a meeting on Monday will decide the out come, is what I'm hearing.
Now it makes sense, why the names of the winner's were removed.

news- flash people

The wrong car is being examined- yes this car may be illegal, but it should have been caught before the race. How are you going to tell a little racer(very young) that your not going to Akron. It's too late, You should of stopped the car from racing the day of the local period.
Now that's a lesson a child and family can learn from.
You should send all the winning car's to Akron and penalize the Adults involved. Tighten the hell out of final inspection- is the lesson here.
It's about the kids!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This family has no idea, the family is challenged in the building department. This was not the racer's fault and this racer's family(single parent) has no idea how a car really works.
In my opinion, the real cheater's are the one's that abused their power for self serving gains.That's a cheater in my book, in STEAD of a single parent with no clue. Guy's make the right desicion here, it's not the kids fault.
I've seen some new people join the group in the last couple of day's and you should write your opinion's.
In STEAD, some of you wish to start rumor's about I. We'll it's not a big deal, your own "so called friends", are the one's spilling the info to me about your cheating ways.
I made sure AA knows all about
this cheater's adult ways.
They are on to you now- good luck at AA's show- your welcome. Remember this is just my opinion and nothing more , nothing less.

The Derbies whole board should be investigated, for Qoute " We wanted to Shake Up The Race " as the director stated at the Banquet. He, and others built the corporate cars which took 1st, & 2 2nd's. This is why this car is under such scrutiny, Not that it is illegal. It is very suspicious that an organization whom is trying to get a new track bent over backwards to have corporate cars almost win in 2 other cases. Wasn't the winning car sponsered by COMCAST? WOW, a few million from that sponser would be perfect for a new track.

One question, please. Did this car in question beat one of these cars, that where built & setup by these same ppl mentioned above?

I am sure that alot of ppl would be offended by these actions of putting kids, which had nothing to due with purchasing or making these cars. Then, having these cars setup to win. The whole premise of corporate cars was to introduce new families into racing, then have them purchase & build on there own. How about all the money that other families spent on this & races?? Just to justify a new track.

This sounds like a witch hunt going on, to make the directors look better.

I'm unaware of foul play on corp. car's as for now. This may be another issue, but doubtful.
In the past and as I still hear it, the corp. cars are not set up very good (usually set up to just race safe).
It's usually another race family or officials, that sometimes tweak these cars to help out a friend, but that's it..
I've done that for years and got hell for it from officials. My deal is if the family has the interest, I'm helping them.
You still have to drive real good to win, I just don't like hearing about kids getting double fazed.
A good car will only take you so far. I believe this is why the ramps were borrowed. If your leaving a very slow
ramp to a slow surface- you need a lot more experience - this is how the rally kids have an advantage- the first 20 feet is where a race is
won or loss.
The end result at the finish line would be a larger margin.
Now remember guy's, they put a taped line on the ramp, so all cars have to leave from the same spot.
The locals bigger ramps shot you out to the street and people were complaining about losses in the 1 second range.
This year margin's were in the 5 to 6 second range. WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you had lane 2 first, you were at a big advantage- you were winning by seconds- as the other racer is watching you way in front. Try telling a kid not to look in the other lane at those margin's- BS!!!!!!!!!!

Now this is what I'm talking about by self serving and abuse.
It was told to me that in the middle of running the Super Stock division the ramps were adjusted. This is way wrong.
Just because an officials kid was racing very soon after.
That same official should of changed the ramp height way earlier in the day, Come on guy's , did the official's
kid have the slow lane first time down or what!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
You don't change a ramp height by large amounts in the middle of a division- your just asking for it.

The one stock corp. car winner was a blessing- Not many "one a year" driver's ever win.
Congratulations to that family. I also believe the second and third place car's in that division were family owned, "once a year" driver's that placed nicely.

I don't think the questionable family car(s) raced in that side(west)divisions. But remember their are 5 car's that go to Akron from this local.

Another big mistake is for thirty years every family got the heat sheet results.
This year the family's got nothing in that category- way wrong.

I also don't think the director is the villain here.
It's a volunteer group and check and balances are more on a honor system(for now). The director needs new blood, He's got his hands full just trying to prepare for a race for the first time.
Get ride of the self serving people, Mr. Director, they don't have all the kids in mind, just there own.

Derby nut, so do you know who went to get the ramps and anything about the other situations, axles, sending car down tail and balance or corp car's being put at balanced on a tail weight ramp.

Junior Champ, I agree with you 100%. Everything that happened that day was b/s.
And, now an innocent family ( and whom was involved ) are being unfairly grilled. There is a bias here.

Your question to me....... You know whom picked up the ramps, along with the axles. That was told to me also.

Also, I think the derby should final inspect, then impound all cars a week before the race. Like they did years before.

If your not familar with that, i can explain.

DerbyNut,
Thanks for posting your opinion. I really knew it was true but wanted a push. I understand the impoundment process- I believe Conshohocken, Pa still does this. It's a great idea.
Also racing was always done on wheel bank wheel as I can remember around this part of the country. We need it back for all racing to be fair.

That really pisses me off. I can't believe other officials let this family have all those axle's and access to (borrowed, first time)set of ramps . I'm really not taking this very well. This is one family that doesn't need anymore help.
But it makes me question all of their other achievements now.
Just like "DerbyDirector" said.
I have never seen them at a NDR national in the past 6 years(if not ever). We'll I'm doing the right thing exposing this P.O.S…...

Remember it's just my opinion nothing less nothing more

Also, at the time the ramps were changed the SS east division was already sitting at the top 2. The stock division and SS West were running. Let's ponder this one.

So your telling me the race was run like this for more that half of the day

Yes, the SS East & Masters were down to the top 2 cars. SS West was running, along with the Stock Division East. The Stock Divisipon West had not started yet.
Thats why the race ran over to Sunday, to finish that devision. But here is something else. On Sunday the track was shortened from what it was on saturday.

Along with replacing the ramps this year, they also added 80 foot to the hill. Which was what you had seen on saturday. Sunday, the ramps had be placed approximately where they were last year.

So, now the Stock Division West ran on both a long track, a short track, & ramps in two totally different locations ( which could effect the outcome of the race. IE.... Possible variances of the locations in the hill) . Hmmmmm, and a Comcast Corporate car won.