Derek,

Help me out here please.

You Said
"I used to torque supertanium at 32 to 35 ft pounds can you figure that out. You do the math and figure out the conversion. I've won the NDR in every division and believe me pal I know what torque I was at."

You also said
"I do everything by feel I do not use torque wrenchs simply because of experence and how I set up cars."

I'm trying to figure out if you use a torque wrenchs or not???? I understand how you can feel when the bolt is tight but knowing torque by feel is simply amazing.

I agree with the fact you have no reason to Blow Smoke at anybody and know you always have run tight. But obviously I'm confused. How did you know that you are at 300 Inch pounds if you go by feel?

Would you suggest the novice car builder that reads what you say - go ahead and torque to the 300 Lbs. They may not have years of experience you have and can't go by some sort of feel. They would be wise I'm thinking to use a torque wrench so they do in fact know where they are at.

I myself in years past asked bolt manufactures how much torque a bolt can take. They talked about the bolt stretching and reaching a failure point. They told me you could probably go over the recommended torque setting by approximately 15 % and probably be safe. Again how you sneak up on it was important as well.

In closing I would suggest to the Novice to be careful with going past the failure point and industry standard. What you think you may have achieved may in fact hurt you. I would also suggest that you use a torque wrench so you do know exactly where you are at. Most important reason is so that you know how the car is set up for sure and how it's performing. It gives you a base line to work from and compare your success rate. Like everybody said - If you run tight make sure there is no cross bind or it will hurt you significantly. Keep track of what you are set at for each race and take good notes.

Well good luck to all as you wrench on your king pins.

Roger Van Waart

How about Dual Controlled Handicap cars in Fort Wayne? If you are going to include Class 1 then you must include Dual Handicap also.

More NDR Divisions

Advanced Senior 1985-1986

Classic Senior 1987-1988

Senior Lean Forward 1993-1998

If you are going to include Dual Controlled Handicap cars in Fort Wayne, then I must also include the Adult rail car division. Boy are we showing our age.

Derek,

I see you time and time again jump Champ 220 for making statements with no evidence of facts to back up the claims. You said and I quote: "I've won the NDR in every division." We as a group have now named every division in the NDR and we are waiting for the facts of your winners name in every division. I for one would not mind if you named all your winners. And I am sure many others are also curious.

I forgot the Adult Rail Car Division. Boy that was a cool division for Adults. I remember that one of them even had a parachute deployed after finish line.

What's the rail car division?

I heard derek built bobbie jo kosiski's cars

No one builds a SS car. They are assembled. Some better than others.

I do not think it would matter much who assembled Bobbie Jo's car because she is great and smart behind the wheel. She repeated on 2 very different tracks. Not sure if that has every been done.

I wish her the best in SC.

Its been done Alright! Here are some National Champions worth noting!

1991 Ruthie Shuff Junior Division Omaha
1992 Ruthie Shuff Senior Division Omaha
1993 Ruthie Shuff Senior Division Columbus
1994 Ruthie Shuff Senior Division Columbus



1991 Krista Shuff Senior Division Omaha
1994 Krista Shuff Lean Forward Division Columbus
1996 Krista Shuff Senior Layback Division Saginaw


Ruthie two different tracks two different divisions 4 National Championships
Krists Shuff three different tracks two different divisions 3 national Championships

For those of you not familiar with the Shuff sisters they are Derek's Stepdaughters

They were the most feared racers in NDR history.
When their names were called in heat draws the crowd used to moan hoping that their racer was not going to be drawn next.



This is just a sample of Dereks National Champion success.
Lets see someone match this!

What does it matter that Derek has not had a National Champion in Class I?
What does it matter thay Derek has not had a National Champion in Flat Bottom?
What does it matter that Derek has not had a National Champ in a 2004 Glass wrapped car?
What does it matter that Derek has not had a National Champion in the rail Division.?

When he says he knows torque settings and people call him out on it think about this. How does Nascar drivers come inches from the wall without hitting it? How is that possible? They have done it many times. How does someone sight cross bind successfully? Dont say it cant be done because I know people that can sight cross bind and then put it on a cross bind table and be right on. If he says he can torque bolts by feel and be right on how can he be questioned? Oh maybe all his National Champions and All American world Champs were luck and not skill. ..NOT...

When he said I have won all divisions in NDR I feel that he meant Junior,Stock,Super Stock, Master. I really dont think he meant all the Divisions ever created by NDR and All American. I feel that he could win all divisions if he entered all of them. You cant win if you dont race in them like Duel Controlled cars.

I understand that Derek can be very cocky at times and he sometimes rubs people wrong but that is just Derek. Any one that has won as many National Championships and All American World Champs as Derek has been involved in I think they would be a little cocky also.

I guarantee that Derek has helped more children win races than anyone in Derby History. He has helped children win that were about to quit derby. He helps minorities and has given cars to people that could not afford them. He has given many prizes to NDR and built the best Trophies for NDR
The NDR gave Derek The National Lifetime Achievment award because of his dedication to derby.

Derek probably will not name all his National Champions families because they still have children racing in Akron and he does not want to be tied to a car going to Akron for obvious reasons.

Thank You all and good luck to all in Akron And Sioux City.
A longtime Derby Fan.

Well the 1st NDR championship heat I was in was with Devan Walsh (1986)in a classic car Flint beat us and we ended up 2nd. The next Final heat was with Scott Hartis (1988)we won the NDR from the losers bracket. Ended up with 2nd's and 3rd's the next 2 years. Then it went to Omaha where Krista won masters and Ruthie won Jr(double bubble). The next year we won Masters I advised Endress to go to stock where they delivered a whipping just like we did.Then we went to Columbus Ruthie won stick and Chrissy Thome won situp (double bubble). The next year Krista won situp senior,Ruthie won laydown and Endress won jr in a car in which I built the floor and Garren put the body on. Then we went to Saginaw in 95 and the only thing won was Laura Shepard in Jr. 96 was a triple bubble as Laura Shepard won ss,Krista won stick and Amanda Baker won situp.97 did not race and got 4th in 98,2nd in 99 ,4th in 2000. In 2001 Heather Fountain won stick in Bad Moon I was not there. 2002 Heather got 4th and in 2003 Rodway got 3rd. In 2004 Rodway won and 2005 Bernt and Martin. So there's your list put it in your pipe and smoke. That does not include those I have influenced.
Well Jerry here's your evidence. Roger I am a manufacturer by trade I do it everyday. I know the capabilities of bolts and torques. I've over the years let FRIENDS torque test my cars and I have even done so myself. I would not recommend going as tight as I do if you do not know where zero is on crossbind. This is very hard for the Novice to achieve.
DEREK

Derek,

I would agree that you owned the Omaha Track for the those years. It was a first class facility that allowed great cars to fly. Your's were very good - no question.

I'm currious as to what the manufactures tell you as to what the max torque is on a grade 8 bolt we now must use. (1/4 -28). I know that you are a manufacture by trade - that is why I am asking.

I have asked 2 different bolt manufactures and have been given the same story as I stated earlier. 15% over stated numbers is probably safe. After that you are open to failure. I am basing my thought about knowing you have zero cross bind.

Thanks

Roger Van Waart

Sorry I do not smoke anything. Nice list. It is what I was expecting. No surprises.

In 1988 you went through me with Wade Hill in Donnie Moore's car.

Akron Spring rally in 92 you beat us by .600 when we were forced to run minus 7" of foils. What a joke.

In 1992 in Omaha, we fought it out with Wendy and Ruthie. Big kid and car against little car and kid. That was a great race. I think that was the year that you and I gained a little respect from some of the founding fathers.

1995 in Sag was tough on you. A new car, making an unauthoried car change and a fight on the ramps. "a triple bubble" My little girl beat you pretty good. We let that one get away from us. You bounced back strong the next year.

1998 was good for us in Indy when little Hilary beat Krista. A changing of the guards so to say. Both great kids, just from different times in history.

Many great races over the years. And yes you have more than your share of NDR wins. That fact deserves respect. However being constantly reminded when pushed in a corner, diminishes the value.

How many All-American wins do you have?

Man you guys have a lot of wins....makes me proud of the three against you two

Depends on who you ask a lot of liars in the woodpile. Your so smart you know who they are. There were no world class teams in AKRON when I moved here. The AA wins are by building parts and advising or set up of kits. Alot of family's that have taken my clinic have prevailed only because I chose not to let anyone know. So many jelous and crooked people are involved in that organization that take things into their own hands(bending cars and changing the rules). As I've said before it is by far the most corrupt form of racing I've ever been involved in.
Roger the manufacturer does not have the experence I have with 1/4-28 being tightened to the max. I always achieved well above any recomendations the manufacturers had.
There was no innovation in the kingpin area of Laura's car except that the rules let you do a few things with washers that others had never had because they were real strict the year before if my memory is correct.
As far as a changing of the guards I don't see it that way at all.I shared my rearend with the derby world and everyone copied it. Including you and BO. Krista and I thought we could build a new car and come out and win untested we could not. I gave my car away to Fountain and only saw it once a year. Not the same as with Ruthie and Krista. Fountain did all the wrenching and building of his cars himself. As far as disminishing the value that's BS a win is a win. Please remember this website is for my business and it is a direct reflection of my life. It was not put here for the betterment of derby but to POLICE the corruptness.
I was on vacation last week.
DEREK
DEREK

Derek,

Corrupt is a very STRONG word. While Akron may not be perfect, it's not corrupt.

How can changing rules be considered corrupt? I've always said we the car builders are often times the result of rule changes. We did something that was never intended but there was not really a rule against it so to speak. We like to call them Gray areas. I know I was involved with one for sure. It had to do with car we had go to Akron in 1968 with a pole vaulting nose on the front. Next year a rule change to clarify what type of nose they had in mind. Was it corrupt to make that rule change - NO, IT was a smart move in reality to make the cars safe.


If there was / is ever any tampering with cars at Akron as you have stated then that is totally unacceptable and should be delt with if proven. No question. The same thing should hold true for those who break the rules intentionally when building cars. I would say that is unacceptable as well and has no place in this sport. I'm not talking gray area here.

A difference of opinion on things is ok and will always be a part of derby as I see it. Often times it is healthy as it causes people to take blinders off and try and come up with a solution that really best for the Program. Personally we may not like it but we must be respectful. This program is a work in progress. We have seen a great deal of change and will most likely see more.


I wish all well at Akron this year and enjoy your time. It's a great event. I also hope to see alot of you in Sioux City. It too will be a great event.

Roger Van Waart