I just heard Dan Hughes was building a helmet height gauge. I think this is a stupid idea. When I helped clinic cars I taught these family's to pick the helmet 3/8 off the top of the car. The ones that this will hurt are the Novice family's that did not know that this piece of crap car goes downhill after the front of the cockpit. So it you did not raise the foam and helmet your car will be illegal. This will be another major blow to the scottie division. Because the car has been built with this flaw it really floors me that this approach is being taken. One should want the division to survive not make cars illegal when its the fault of the manufacturer. I really do not think it would hold up in a court when you have to modify their crap box in order to obtain a line of sight. I have no respect for idiots trying to gig the competition when the division is a dying breed anyways. This sport needs a baseline set of rules so that it is easier for novice builders. If those making the products do not have the skills to produce a good product then they need not be building the products. Send it to someone that has the skills. I can't wait to sit back and watch this fiasco. Jerry what do you think about this? Who do you think this will cause issues. Spliting each side of the headrest and picking it up at the AA and ruining these kids paint jobs will make a lot of disgruntled racers.
DEREK

Derek,

Danny's guage checks the line of site. I asked him to put it on our car to make sure that the top of the first rivet is indeed the highest part of the car. Our car was OK, but I wanted to find out now rather than trying to fix it Tuesday of All American week. The AA is currently inspecting Masters cars for line of sight violations.

Here we go again.....sounds like another rediculous gadget. Why can't they come up with anything universal so everyone can ensure they meet a certain gauge before paint, without adding built in measures or contingencies, to allow enough margin to safely meet these bogus measurements. Would be great if they could sell measurement equipment to locals or provide the plans for manufacture. Reminds me of that bogus 14" height gauge they used a few years back for the wrapped cars, and that rediculous eyeball check for headrests last year that distort a flimsy plastic helmet, then say it doesn't meet a 7.25 inch spread at the bottom of the helmut somewhere between the rivots....... They pride themselves on letting it be a surprise thats for sure. I can see it now.....Super Tuesday what a joy watching those paint jobs be destroyed and all eyes looking doubly hard during inspection week at the cars that spend time and work on the small details and cosmetic aspects. Seems like they look for ways to initiate conflict.....Like that great idea of finishing the floorboards to prohibit a couple of cars from going above and beyond with there protective finish.....Why do you have to get me started!

Tim the problem is that this crap box by the aa is below the line of site before you start. I can't see gigging new people when you are trying to make a division go and your product is defective. Are there any REAL businessmen within this organization. The element of surprise cannot be good for this sport. For that matter its not look at past history. Tim did you build up the sides of the cockpit and pick helmet up at least 3/8 above top of car? That is why you are legal.
I'm amazed that something has not been done with this terrible product. Another mold should be built with headrest on that plains into the top. I'm not surprised though .....that's what you get when you let a fireman design a production piece......JUNK!!! You guys have ruined derby with this kind of stuff and the CHEAP generic idea's brought to your table.
There are no findancial boundaries in quarter midget's and Jr Dragster's that is why is going strong. You get what you pay for. They have quality products and in just 10 years Jr Dragsters are the fastest growing and largest form of youth racing today. Why ...because of quality products and great business skills. In all forms of racing no one wants junk they want quality. They want to pick up the phone and get the RIGHT answers. They want quality parts and fair racing. So the problems are:
1-good quality products
2-A staff that is competent and can answer questions correctly
3-run as a business not a way to filter over priced products so that board members make money
4-do everything within your power to promote fairness
5-quit trying to start witch hunts that hurt the sport
6-can officials that CHEAT children (investigate this situation)
7-create revenue with quality and customer service (something this sport knows nothing about)
8-quit paying over $200,000.00 for insurance and shop it around. After all this discussion it was not sent out for bid this year.
9-quit taking things away from the kids and start giving back all I've seen is taking
10- go to guidestar.org ..sign up and put in International Soap Box Derby and check out the tax returns you will see a lot of unanswered frivolous spending in my opinion
WAKE UP PEOPLE THEY ARE DRIVING THIS SPORT INTO THE GROUND
Dan ...learn to race and quit trying to gig your competition.
I say we start a petition to take back our sport...present it to city hall with a ton of high lighted #'s and concerns and get this program back on track. Get rid of all these takers and get some givers. Create a means and balance system that has not existed within organization.
DEREK

I agree that being able to check your car before the All American is great, but does everyone have the opportunity to the use of this gage. Only a few have access to the gage the All American will be using. I remember a few years back when they had a tail gauge for the Scottie that caused a few law suits. Is this going to happen again?

HEY !!!!!!! derek...watch that fireman stuff..........i make my living doing that, i think i have a very good talent at design and building.......

I THINK I CAN BUILD A FAST CAR

as you can tell by the blogs, lots of grown men have no hands on talent, hey thats the reason they have the scottie to begin with. i even seen people asking how to make racks for their trailers to haul cars, the country is growing dumber by the minute, no shop class in schools and no talent with the kids growing up

my motto...........THE SCOTTIE- A SIMPLE CAR FOR SIMPLE MINDS

fla

AMEN !!!!

no shop class

no gym class

no wonder we have to teach kids our selves

Derik, Didn't I tell you how all other childrens sports have their act together! You need to find out on your own. Next time i'll write it on a BBQ stained napkin from the local Chicken wing place! They got an room on the wall for some spiffy, sparkley, scotties? Herb might have a few too?

Who is Dan Hughes ? My Masters were inspected (and signed for) by George, I don't know the Scottie rules, Rodenbaum. So are we exempt?

He also DQed our cars, for line of sight last year, that were fine the year (2006) before? Huh. Said, he felt the rivets were to low. Was not going to sign our inspection forms. Yet he Could not give me a specific measurement. Nor would he allow the Fiberglass cutouts back in the wheel openings. Wrong again.

I had a legitimate protest at an AA rally about tape over someone’s axle openings, and George, said they were legal, only to get an e-mail by the control board two days later that backed me up.

You are not going to be able to do the amount of work I had to, to get the helmet rivets up. Yet In an afternoon. It isn't SAFE TO RUSH thru that process. The risk of something going wrong with the helmet during a race is elevated, and the kid will not stop their car in the RACE OF THEIR LIFE! Our one car had a persistent problem with all but one helmet. I truly have supreme knowledge on this one.

Later,
4C's

George, ignorance or expert to this "line of sight" and " rivet" rule doesn't really matter.
AA is to blame ! The instruction plans are not in ,any way , informant enough to imply these rules.
With AA's production of this defective master shell, a clear pectoral "how to" instruction manual should be made before AA start's enforcing these type of rules.
How are we to know to raise the hatch deck and headrest.
you better know someone!!!!!!! and that's right, change the rules again and again and again to the same shell???.
It seems the past couple of years have been really hard on the families to race in masters.
Unless you want to build a new car every year. AA is making it so expensive to race Master's.
Your better off, racing Quarter Midgets, class organizations are available in the same price range(or little more).

Also, George Rodenbaugh enforcing these rules was not really his fault. He tells us exactly what his process is when he doesn't know the answer , he calls AA and they tell him what to reply with.
The problem is AA need to make a new Master mold with a head rest and hatch fitted properly.
George R. had to enforce those rules on you because he had someone "squeaking" away in his ear.
He had to, having a police background and knowing him, that's how he operates. The squeaky wheel caused all your problems, not George R. Some people want to DQ there competition over stupid(AA master's mold) rules, inSTEAD of racing to win. No disrespect George, but your master division success has been limited.
With your older Master car's that see the day light about twice a year, I was amazed that you were having your ball's broke over this. The funny thing Panzitta is that the thorn in your ass, was calling Derek every week. You both built your car's with Derek's advise.
Maybe you were too much of a threat????????????????????????????????????????

The year we went to Akron the AA checked our line of sight by placing a paint stick with a different colors on each end and side next to the wheel. The driver had to tell the inspector what color was facing him. I think the driver should be able to see the track but the thought of another gauge sucks. I would like to see some of the AA wizards build a Scotty. I have been to other local inspections and each of them have their own way of inspecting. I have seen them fight over how the bondo was placed to make the hatch fit tight. They wanted to DQ a car because the bondo was placed on the hatch rather than on the lip of the shell. The best thing the AA could do is to make George W’s book a guide. It would help inspectors and builders.

This gauge is not a new concept. In 2004 our local director built sight line gauge from plans provided by the AA (or so he said). The purpose was to insure the rivet was above the top of the foam.

Shocking news: As with the Scottie, there were problems with the gauge. It could be maniupulated and proven to be incorrect. Thus, it was useful only where there were clear violations - and really where no gauge was needed.

The gauge is not a new concept they tried to selectively enforce it with stick cars. These cars are hard enough to build now and with the back of the car planning downward its a real job to get it right. When the Scottie division first started you were not allowed to build the car up. Amazing the guy that designed and made the rules changed everything by altering the shape of his granddaughter's car thus opening a can of worms ......so out came floorboard template.......illegal cars ........division died. Now new Scottie crap box that when first started you could not build up either side of cockpit to conform .......but things change now they are telling everyone they MUST build up the sides or your screwed because line of site cannot be achieved with a small vision hole without building up the sides. Then some idiot always wants to include foam and some kids car gets all jacked up conforming causing hard feelings. You idiots making rules never cease to amaze me with how little you know. The AA needs to build a new mold as this amateur one is junk. AA needs to make line of sight into their car.
DEREK

If a swing arm is the gauge, then have the ball's to publish a drawing on the official sight that everyone can duplicate and be fully aware and prepared to prove a specific measurement of non-compliance. All inspection techniques should be posted and uniform across the country. Fair is fair. Where we are at now, is nowhere near uniform. Leading to the games that happen all over.

Has anyone at AASBD taken the front rivets out of any (off the shelf, non-altered) helmet , run a 3' rod of the same diameter in, place it back in the proper position? Not even close to level. Yet the brim is straight and level with the hatch! So everything is centered around flawed parts. Flawed rules, with no good guidance. The rules state, if it isn't spelled out by them, you can't do it. Right. Where in 2006 or 2007 rules, does it say to double up the hatches foam is suggested, or legal? But that is the Defacto standard. If you build a car with levels and lasers, you don't need it. The Bondo rule is even more vague, yet the Defacto standard is to load it up on the doubled foam on the hatch, and around the helmet area. SBD should Drop the hatch measurement an inch and a half, and the front section will drop and the hatch will level with it. They are hung up on keep that area high, since it affects the P-of-S steering system, or that elusive inner city kid taking all the Gold.

George doesn’t know the rules, Over and Over, he reacted to someone else’s wishes, I knew that, still doesn’t make it right. (The ultimate team solidifies that thought) We had plenty of line of sight, just no practice time with the cars torn apart, last minute concession request. The 06 First Place Harley car......... The 3rd and 4th place at the fall Keystones, out of the crate, with helmet malfunctions, little setup, proves that one.

Later,
4C's

I saw this posted on AA site:
This is a line of sight gauge, it's NOT a new rule. It is a measurement that is checked when you come to the All-American. This measurement is checked to make sure that your helmet is not too low and you're driver can see past the top of the car. Most people that build masters cars read this rule but aren't sure how to measure for it. I have been to top side and I have seen cars taken to the side during repairs and told to fix the line of sight, it's not an easy fix. I built this gauge to help car builders check this measurement before they come to the All - American so if they have a line of sight issue they can fix it at home and not during the All- American. It's easier to make these repairs at home rather than getting to the AA and having to tear up paint jobs. This is to help more cars VIP so it's a good week for families. I know that people are saying this gauge will take a lot of cars out of the masters division, that was not my intentions when I built it. My reason for building this gauge is so your drivers can see past the top of the car. This will prevent drivers from having sight problems and prevent you from having to grind your paint jobs on the week you want them to look the best.
any question feel free to call me~ 614-875-2599

Danny Hughes



Dan,
When will this gauge be making a West Coast tour so that we can "check this measurement before they come to the All-American"? I'm sure we west coasters would like to have a chance "fix it at home and not during the All-American". Unless, of course, the All-American is just for East Coast racers.



If you built this gauge to help people then why not show what it looks like and what will be mausured?If it wasn't for ZE's message board no one would even know about this until it would be too late.


I saw these 2 questions that were not answered also. MAYBE SOMEONE SHOULD CALL AND ASK HIM HOW THIS IS FAIR FOR THE WHOLE COUNTRY AND NOT JUST A ANOTHER INSIDE PRIVILAGE OF RACERS IN OHIO!!! And how this helps the division grow.
DEREK
DEREK

Like everybody said - this is not a new rule and maybe this gauge is an easier way to check it???? I really don't know with out seeing it or understanding how it works.

As long as the rivet is at or above the line of sight no matter how one checks it - should be good to go would it not? Unless I'm not understanding something here maybe we are getting worked up about nothing. Having said that we do appear to have some excitment building for what I'm not sure.

Are they checking it any different than before as far as the requirement?? Don't remember hearing many issues with this until just now? Personally I have not seen anything around here in the Midwest???

Have a great day.

Roger Van Waart